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The Rochester & Strood bye-election

Any topics that are primarily about humanism or other non-religious life stances fit in here.
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Nick
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The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#1 Postby Nick » November 17th, 2014, 2:48 pm

As you will know, there will be a bye-election in my constituencey on 20th November. Tonight there is a free huistings meeting in Rochester at which 38 Degrees (heaven help us all!) claim we will be able to ask questions we want answered, rather than questions the politicians want to answer.

I am thinking of asking a question about faith schools, and am working on a question which will, I hope, expose their true perspectives, rather than covering their asses in platitudes (if that's not too unpleasant a mataphor...). Any suggestions (or indeed alternative questions) greatly appreciated. :D

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Altfish
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#2 Postby Altfish » November 17th, 2014, 3:22 pm

Good idea for a question Nick.
Something along the lines of..."When there is so much religious division in this country, will your party stop funding single faith religious schools?"

It needs working on, but it's a start

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Nick
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#3 Postby Nick » November 17th, 2014, 4:31 pm

First thoughts:

Do you agree that society is well served by dividing the education of children on sectarian lines, according to the alleged religious prejudices of their parents....


(Probably rather more confrontational than open.....)

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Altfish
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#4 Postby Altfish » November 17th, 2014, 5:26 pm

Nick wrote:First thoughts:

Do you agree that society is well served by dividing the education of children on sectarian lines, according to the alleged religious prejudices of their parents....


(Probably rather more confrontational than open.....)

Dunno, that's not bad for a starter, it'll liven up the evening.

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Nick
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#5 Postby Nick » November 19th, 2014, 5:27 pm

I went along to the meeting, but it was wall to wall with 38 degrees supporters. Maybe 300 people there, so I didn't get a chance to ask my question, and such was teh lunacy of the questions and the poor quality of the answers I didn't have the strength to stay till the end.

Mark Reckless didn't turn up. Of course 38 Degrees claimed it was because he didn't want to answer searching questions. But in reality, it would have been pointless for him to attend as there was fat chance of anyone doing anything other than barrack. It was not a balanced audience by any stretch of the imagination. There was an independent candidate in the hall, but 38 Degrees wouldn't let him on the stage. So much for their open questions policy. The little shits.

The best at handling the questions was the Green candidate, though his answers were crazy. The Labour candidate, though young, was not bad, though Labour had not provided her with any policies, which made her life difficult. The Lib Dem was OK, but did not put himself forward much as a public figure, though I found him the most trustworthy. The Tory candidate was pretty appalling. Surely the Tories could have found a better candidate? For any voter of that persuasion, Mark Reckless comes across as vastly more capable.

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Altfish
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#6 Postby Altfish » November 19th, 2014, 5:39 pm

I thought you may have been at the Q&A session where Reckless got into a mess about deporting immigrant workers.

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Nick
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#7 Postby Nick » November 19th, 2014, 6:23 pm

I heard that he had made a "correction", but know nothing about the original incident.

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Dave B
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#8 Postby Dave B » November 19th, 2014, 6:33 pm

Nick wrote:I heard that he had made a "correction", but know nothing about the original incident.
Yes, like all politicians who let their secret policies slip by accident he was, "mis-heard", "misunderstood", "taken out of context" or some other excuse.



:wink:
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Nick
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#9 Postby Nick » November 20th, 2014, 2:15 pm

I think it will prove to be a huge stumbling block for UKIP if they ever reach an influential mass in Parliament. Is it really practical to demand visas from the Shengen area? I really don't think so. Even to the extent that I think the PM's promise to limit immigration from Europe is doomed too.

In passing, just a bit of info. The position of migrants vis a vis the UK and Spain is very different. A large proportion (the majority?) of Brits in Spain are retirees, bringing in money, but not taking jobs, and buying properties of which Spain has an oversupply. Spaniards in the UK are much more likely to be of working age, requiring housing of which there is a shortage.

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animist
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#10 Postby animist » November 20th, 2014, 2:20 pm

Nick wrote:I think it will prove to be a huge stumbling block for UKIP if they ever reach an influential mass in Parliament. Is it really practical to demand visas from the Shengen area? I really don't think so. Even to the extent that I think the PM's promise to limit immigration from Europe is doomed too.

In passing, just a bit of info. The position of migrants vis a vis the UK and Spain is very different. A large proportion (the majority?) of Brits in Spain are retirees, bringing in money, but not taking jobs, and buying properties of which Spain has an oversupply. Spaniards in the UK are much more likely to be of working age, requiring housing of which there is a shortage.
agreed, but if the Spaniards or any other migrants are of working age, they are helping to fund the pensions of people like - and maybe to look after me when I need medical care - so I am in favour of lots of immigration

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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#11 Postby Nick » November 20th, 2014, 2:30 pm

Of course, the problem with that is that sometime the immigaration will stop, giving us a bigger but delayed problem, and secondly, this is something of a beggar my neighbour policy, isn't it?

Or were you not being entirely serious....

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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#12 Postby jaywhat » November 21st, 2014, 8:40 am

So one more UKIP MP and one fewer Tory - not much to choose !

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animist
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#13 Postby animist » November 21st, 2014, 8:55 am

Nick wrote:Of course, the problem with that is that sometime the immigaration will stop, giving us a bigger but delayed problem, and secondly, this is something of a beggar my neighbour policy, isn't it?

Or were you not being entirely serious....

"sometime", or in the long run, as Keynes said, we are all dead; anyway, why should immigration stop? And why is this a beggar my neighbour policy?

Watching the by-election discussion last night, I think Cameron is right to warn his rightwing supporters that voting Ukip may well let in Labour, however unpopular Milibrain is

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Altfish
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#14 Postby Altfish » November 21st, 2014, 9:34 am

Labour's ability to self-implode is amazing; today should have been UKIP/Tory headlines, instead we have White Van Man in the Tory press. :deadhorse:

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Alan H
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#15 Postby Alan H » November 21st, 2014, 10:16 am

jaywhat wrote:So one more UKIP MP and one fewer Tory - not much to choose !
+1
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#16 Postby Alan H » November 21st, 2014, 10:17 am

Altfish wrote:Labour's ability to self-implode is amazing; today should have been UKIP/Tory headlines, instead we have White Van Man in the Tory press. :deadhorse:
Indeed. The press are the one of our main democracy problems.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#17 Postby Dave B » November 21st, 2014, 10:22 am

Alan H wrote:
Altfish wrote:Labour's ability to self-implode is amazing; today should have been UKIP/Tory headlines, instead we have White Van Man in the Tory press. :deadhorse:
Indeed. The press are the one of our main democracy problems.
The press are crap, mostly, but I suppose they are the crap the people demand!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#18 Postby Alan H » November 21st, 2014, 10:40 am

Dave B wrote:
Alan H wrote:
Altfish wrote:Labour's ability to self-implode is amazing; today should have been UKIP/Tory headlines, instead we have White Van Man in the Tory press. :deadhorse:
Indeed. The press are the one of our main democracy problems.
The press are crap, mostly, but I suppose they are the crap the people demand!
The public wants what the public gets...
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Nick
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#19 Postby Nick » November 22nd, 2014, 12:37 pm

The results make interesting reading. It is not really that surprising that UKIP got in. Such a bye-election is an opportunity for everyone to kick the government.

But I think there are some surprises. I realise that the Lib Dems have been deserted by many of their former voters. I am rather contemptuous of them. Are they only able to vote for a party which will only propose the impossible? But their vote dropped from around 7,000 to 439. :shock:

Until Reckless won the seat in 2010, it had been a Labour seat for many years, though the last Labour MP won by only a couple of hundred votes last time. Indeed, he was on the election night coverage, and declared he had lost! But for the Labour candidate to fail so spectacularly is serious for Labour. They seem to have failed to capture any of the fleeing Lib Dems.

Of local interest, Mike Barker, who claims to be the world's leading expert on nuclear bomb disposal (Yikes! Though it is probably a small field....) and was awarded an MBE for his services, was campaigning on the threat posed by the SS Montgomery which is laden with THT and lying sunk offshore a few hundred yards offshore. He claims it is in a dangerous state, and if it goes off, it woudt deprive a fifty mile cirlcle of oxygen for 30 minutes. Cripes! He has, moreover, offered to solve the problem.

OTOH, he has rather blotted his copybook by being jailed for refusing to pay his council tax in protest at no-one listening to him, and also for threatening to kill the magistrate at his trial. He was also standing for The World Government party. Is he just bonkers? Or, more worryingly, only partly bonkers....?

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Dave B
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Re: The Rochester & Strood bye-election

#20 Postby Dave B » November 22nd, 2014, 1:12 pm

and if it goes off, it woudt deprive a fifty mile cirlcle of oxygen for 30 minutes.
I am trying to get my head round the physics of that idea!

TNT (I guess "THT" was a typo) and all other high explosives generate their own oxygen to fuel the reaction, in that respect they are no different from the gunpowder I made as a kid.. Even if there is a "slow burn" some of the energy, both blast and heat, will be absorbed in the water or shifting a lot of it elsewhere.

Any rising heat, fireball or column, will draw air in from the surrounding environment and, yes, its oxygen will be partly consumed in the fire but it will be experienced as a wind - two winds, one hot outgoing from the blast (lasting closer to 30 seconds (if it is a sustained series of large explosions) than 30 minutes) and one nice cool one coming in.

Nothing to do with the election but an interesting thing to ponder - wonder if Mr Barker published this idea anywhere . . .

Later: reading a bit on this I suddenly realised that I have been within a matter of feet of the ship! They used to (may still do so) "Trips round the wreck" from Sheerness where we used to holiday back then. The masts are still above the water.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015


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