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Do you ever go to church?

General socialising and light-hearted discussions take place in here.

On what occasions are you prepared to set foot in a church? (Apart from as a tourist!)

Wouldn't set foot in one
16
10%
Would attend only for a ceremony (specify below)
70
43%
Would attend for a ceremony, memorial service or a carol service.
49
30%
Would attend a normal service.
29
18%
 
Total votes: 164

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User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 22746
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#321 Postby Alan H » March 28th, 2012, 7:28 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

animist wrote:I adore churches and cathedrals - they to me represent their societies' highest aspirations, though certainly the money would have been better spent on feeding the poor.
Even though I might be able to admire the engineering and workmanship, it's that what disgusts me.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Compassionist
Posts: 3285
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#322 Postby Compassionist » March 28th, 2012, 8:22 pm

My wife and son go to church regularly. I go with them to keep the peace and unity of the family even though I am an ex-Muslim ex-Christian strong agnostic compassionist humanist. It bothers me that the Bible is a very divisive book. I worry about the Bible's effects on our son.

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]

37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

- Matthew 10:32-39, The Bible (NIV).

49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

- Luke 12:49-53, The Bible (NIV).

Sandra Price
Posts: 46
Joined: October 16th, 2011, 5:01 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#323 Postby Sandra Price » March 28th, 2012, 10:27 pm

no
Not for Prophet

User avatar
animist
Posts: 6284
Joined: July 30th, 2010, 11:36 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#324 Postby animist » March 29th, 2012, 9:39 am

Compassionist wrote:My wife and son go to church regularly. I go with them to keep the peace and unity of the family even though I am an ex-Muslim ex-Christian strong agnostic compassionist humanist. It bothers me that the Bible is a very divisive book. I worry about the Bible's effects on our son.

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]

37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

- Matthew 10:32-39, The Bible (NIV).

49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

- Luke 12:49-53, The Bible (NIV).

I like a lot of Jesus's teachings, but it is easy to forget these! They hardly fit well with the "Love thy neighbour as thyself" version of the Golden Rule which we are currently debating on Theologica

Compassionist
Posts: 3285
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#325 Postby Compassionist » March 30th, 2012, 11:02 am

animist wrote:
Compassionist wrote:My wife and son go to church regularly. I go with them to keep the peace and unity of the family even though I am an ex-Muslim ex-Christian strong agnostic compassionist humanist. It bothers me that the Bible is a very divisive book. I worry about the Bible's effects on our son.

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]

37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

- Matthew 10:32-39, The Bible (NIV).

49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

- Luke 12:49-53, The Bible (NIV).

I like a lot of Jesus's teachings, but it is easy to forget these! They hardly fit well with the "Love thy neighbour as thyself" version of the Golden Rule which we are currently debating on Theologica

What's Theologica?

Yes, people usually cherry pick the nice verses and paint Jesus as the best role model for all. However, if you actually take the time to read the whole Bible, it will get rid of such delusions. I recommend reading the Skeptics Annotated Bible from Genesis to Revelation. It's a great antidote to being a Christian. You may also have read Luke 22:36 (NIV):
He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Compassionist
Posts: 3285
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#326 Postby Compassionist » March 31st, 2012, 1:33 pm

Animist, you might find this link about Jesus useful for your debate in Theologica.

Quoting from Mark 11:12-14, The Bible

The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it.


Have you ever considered how irrational and absurd and unjust it is of Jesus to expect a fig tree to bear fruit out of season and punish it for not bearing fruit out of season?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 22746
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#327 Postby Alan H » March 31st, 2012, 5:09 pm

Compassionist wrote:What's Theologica?
It's a discussion forum that discusses, well, theological things! Not sure what the URL is.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Compassionist
Posts: 3285
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#328 Postby Compassionist » March 31st, 2012, 5:41 pm

Alan H wrote:
Compassionist wrote:What's Theologica?
It's a discussion forum that discusses, well, theological things! Not sure what the URL is.

Thank you. I found the url: http://theologica.ning.com/

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Cam
Posts: 98
Joined: October 1st, 2013, 9:36 am

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#329 Postby Cam » October 24th, 2013, 11:52 am

With regard to the question of do I ever go to church:

I have visited them looking at the history and architecture but I have never gone to one on my own by choice for worship reasons.

I went to one last year when my step-granddaughter was christened. I did not rate the experience and was glad to be out of there, but I went to appease the family. Interestingly enough, the mother and father of the child are not religious, but still wanted their daughter christened. My wife is not religious at all and does not believe in god and neither of her children were christened.

However, my mother does believe in god and when the time comes for her funeral, I will organise a church of England ceremony as that is what she wants. I expect I'll feel very torn at the time between my own world view and being involved in hers out of respect for her.

My father is teetering on the brink of being a Humanist. He was an atheist for years until his father died, then he became a 'tearful agnostic' as he wants the believe the he will meet up again with him when he dies, but underneath he does know the truth. Now that time has passed since then, I think some more gentle prodding from me and he might well be a Humanist. He has already agreed to have a Humanist funeral which I will feel much more comfortable with.

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Gottard
Posts: 1306
Joined: October 3rd, 2008, 3:11 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#330 Postby Gottard » October 25th, 2013, 9:56 am

Thank you for your outing Cam. Your story is similar to many of us and, as Humanists, we share the value of "consideration" for other beliefs, something missing of others.
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience

User avatar
Cam
Posts: 98
Joined: October 1st, 2013, 9:36 am

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#331 Postby Cam » October 25th, 2013, 4:54 pm

:D Yes, it's a shame that others can't be more considerate, but I guess that's not in their teachings. It's their way or no way. This is why for years I had a serious problem with the word Atheist, as from a catholic perspective (as I was brought up), it had a strong association with evil and the devil. But once that was put to bed, it was fine. :smile:

Compassionist
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Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#332 Postby Compassionist » October 26th, 2013, 11:31 pm

Cam wrote:With regard to the question of do I ever go to church:

I have visited them looking at the history and architecture but I have never gone to one on my own by choice for worship reasons.

I went to one last year when my step-granddaughter was christened. I did not rate the experience and was glad to be out of there, but I went to appease the family. Interestingly enough, the mother and father of the child are not religious, but still wanted their daughter christened. My wife is not religious at all and does not believe in god and neither of her children were christened.

However, my mother does believe in god and when the time comes for her funeral, I will organise a church of England ceremony as that is what she wants. I expect I'll feel very torn at the time between my own world view and being involved in hers out of respect for her.

My father is teetering on the brink of being a Humanist. He was an atheist for years until his father died, then he became a 'tearful agnostic' as he wants the believe the he will meet up again with him when he dies, but underneath he does know the truth. Now that time has passed since then, I think some more gentle prodding from me and he might well be a Humanist. He has already agreed to have a Humanist funeral which I will feel much more comfortable with.

Thank you for sharing your experience. How do your parents deal with the conflict between their different worldviews? Does your Mum worry that you and your Dad are condemned to eternal hell according to her Christian beliefs?

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animist
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Re: Do you ever go to church?

#333 Postby animist » October 27th, 2013, 8:42 pm

Compassionist wrote:Animist, you might find this link about Jesus useful for your debate in Theologica.

Quoting from Mark 11:12-14, The Bible

The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it.


Have you ever considered how irrational and absurd and unjust it is of Jesus to expect a fig tree to bear fruit out of season and punish it for not bearing fruit out of season?

you're so right - and of course Jesus also sent a herd of pigs over a cliff, didn't he? Theologica seems to be self-destructing - obviously the Holy Spirit is not with them - but if I feel mean I will start this up as a new thread :twisted:

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Cam
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Re: Do you ever go to church?

#334 Postby Cam » October 30th, 2013, 11:00 am

Compassionist wrote:Thank you for sharing your experience. How do your parents deal with the conflict between their different worldviews? Does your Mum worry that you and your Dad are condemned to eternal hell according to her Christian beliefs?

They divorced when I was six years old, so my mother has a very dim view of my father's morality anyway, especially as the reason for the divorce was adultery! Interestingly though, they still enquire about each other's health through me. My mother has a very strange stance on non-belief though. She does not believe it. It's almost like she's saying: ok, you are saying you don't believe but I know you do really and I'll pray for you.

As you know, this is extremely infuriating and frustrating, but I can't be too harsh with her as recently, her 'faith' gave her a boost when she needed it. She was diagnosed with a very aggressive form of cancer and with lots of surgery, radio & chemotherapy, she has beaten it (for now), and during that time it did worry me that she would give up and be ready to go up to heaven but strangely she thought that her father (her biological father who died years ago) was sending her strength from heaven to battle the disease and I think this positive mental attitude has helped her. I think if she had been Humanist then maybe not wanting her life to end would have been enough. But I thought at the time, as long as she has the right mental attitude to beat the cancer then I was not too concerned how it was derived.

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draykorinee
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Re: Do you ever go to church?

#335 Postby draykorinee » October 31st, 2013, 7:07 am

Indeed Cam, as a nurse I see how faith can help people through difficult times indeed, I am just constantly amazed at how indifferent god would be of his believers as when the time comes I have seen no difference in the suffering of an atheist or theist alike, how they deal with it psychologically is of course different, its hard to articulate what we as nurse see but I certainly would always encourage people to utilise any way they can to get them through illness/dying even though I of course find the notion of 'religion' an absurdity. I would go so far as to say that to me hospital chaplains are a must, which goes against my drive for secularism :S
sanctimonious
ˌsaŋ(k)tɪˈməʊnɪəs/Submit
adjectivederogatory
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Gottard
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Re: Do you ever go to church?

#336 Postby Gottard » October 31st, 2013, 11:01 am

Draycorinee, infact it is not appropriate to argue about faith with people in advanced age, worst, if with health problems. In this case faith is equivalent to administering palliative drugs and we Humanists should be aware and accept this corporeality and cope with it.
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience

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Cam
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Re: Do you ever go to church?

#337 Postby Cam » October 31st, 2013, 1:01 pm

Gottard wrote:Draycorinee, infact it is not appropriate to argue about faith with people in advanced age, worst, if with health problems. In this case faith is equivalent to administering palliative drugs and we Humanists should be aware and accept this corporeality and cope with it.


I could not agree more. This is where our empathy has to be the overriding motivation.

draykorinee wrote: I would go so far as to say that to me hospital chaplains are a must, which goes against my drive for secularism


Yes, but do we have Humanist chaplains in our hospitals? I know they have a presence in the military in certain countries. I think it would be very useful in the hospitals for those that need them. I know that I would not be happy with a religious chaplain in my hour of need. We don't need someone looking down their nose at us (as I have found a lot of religious people do to Atheists) or at worst trying a 'last-minute' conversion. I think we need to push for Humanist chaplains and hopefully with our actions and those of the BHA increasing the visibility of Humanists and Atheism in general, it will become a reality.

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Dave B
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Re: Do you ever go to church?

#338 Postby Dave B » October 31st, 2013, 1:03 pm

Gottard wrote:Draycorinee, infact it is not appropriate to argue about faith with people in advanced age, worst, if with health problems. In this case faith is equivalent to administering palliative drugs and we Humanists should be aware and accept this corporeality and cope with it.
I agree, if they have lived with faith and find it supportive in old age then they are entitled to continue in that state.

Now, perhaps how can we convince the evangelistic religionistas that pushing their rubbish at old Humanists (especially those with a dicky ticker) and thus annoying them is just as wrong. We deserve to be left in our sinful ignorance of "the Lord"!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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draykorinee
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Re: Do you ever go to church?

#339 Postby draykorinee » October 31st, 2013, 1:53 pm

Dave B wrote:
Gottard wrote:Draycorinee, infact it is not appropriate to argue about faith with people in advanced age, worst, if with health problems. In this case faith is equivalent to administering palliative drugs and we Humanists should be aware and accept this corporeality and cope with it.
I agree, if they have lived with faith and find it supportive in old age then they are entitled to continue in that state.

Now, perhaps how can we convince the evangelistic religionistas that pushing their rubbish at old Humanists (especially those with a dicky ticker) and thus annoying them is just as wrong. We deserve to be left in our sinful ignorance of "the Lord"!


They're only trying to save you! And what better time than on your deathbed.
sanctimonious
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adjectivederogatory
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Gottard
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Re: Do you ever go to church?

#340 Postby Gottard » October 31st, 2013, 1:54 pm

I agree, if they have lived with faith and find it supportive in old age then they are entitled to continue in that state.
Now, perhaps how can we convince the evangelistic religionistas that pushing their rubbish at old Humanists (especially those with a dicky ticker) and thus annoying them is just as wrong. We deserve to be left in our sinful ignorance of "the Lord"!


I can only propose that religious chaplains subscribe to an "in depth" course of Psychology.
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience

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Dave B
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Re: Do you ever go to church?

#341 Postby Dave B » October 31st, 2013, 2:51 pm

draykorinee wrote:
Dave B wrote:I agree, if they have lived with faith and find it supportive in old age then they are entitled to continue in that state.

Now, perhaps how can we convince the evangelistic religionistas that pushing their rubbish at old Humanists (especially those with a dicky ticker) and thus annoying them is just as wrong. We deserve to be left in our sinful ignorance of "the Lord"!


They're only trying to save you! And what better time than on your deathbed.
Ah, was it Pascal who suggested changing to belief at the last moment - just in case?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015


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