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TFTD campaign

For news of events, petitions and campaigns that may be of interest to humanists and secularists.
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Paolo
Posts: 1474
Joined: September 13th, 2008, 9:15 am

Re: TFTD campaign

#61 Postby Paolo » March 20th, 2009, 9:31 am

Latest post of the previous page:

My most recent TFTD. There is a link to TH at the bottom in the Tip for the Day.

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Alan C.
Posts: 10356
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 3:35 pm

Re: TFTD campaign

#62 Postby Alan C. » March 20th, 2009, 10:28 am

Excellent Paolo, I gave it 5 stars.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Alan H
Posts: 22257
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: TFTD campaign

#63 Postby Alan H » March 20th, 2009, 10:59 am

Excellent! A very succinct explanation of morality. I particularly liked:
The omniscient god method of behavioural control...
:D
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Paolo
Posts: 1474
Joined: September 13th, 2008, 9:15 am

Re: TFTD campaign

#64 Postby Paolo » March 20th, 2009, 12:28 pm

Ah shucks, thanks guys!

I am pleased to say that my thoughts on these issues have really developed since joining TH - the discussions by the core members here have provided a fantastic lesson in how to formulate an opinion in a logical, consistent and robust manner. This is a really wonderful forum for intellectual stimulation and debate - a big shout out to Maria and Alan for their hard work in making our discussions possible. Good work!

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: TFTD campaign

#65 Postby Alan H » March 20th, 2009, 12:34 pm

Now it's our turn to say aw shucks! :)
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Paolo
Posts: 1474
Joined: September 13th, 2008, 9:15 am

Re: TFTD campaign

#66 Postby Paolo » April 6th, 2009, 8:21 am

Not sure if anyone noticed this on the STFTD from April 1st, but if not I thought I'd bring it to attention...

BBC get shirty?

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: TFTD campaign

#67 Postby Alan H » April 6th, 2009, 9:45 am

:hilarity: Nice one, but didn't fool me!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan C.
Posts: 10356
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 3:35 pm

Re: TFTD campaign

#68 Postby Alan C. » April 19th, 2009, 6:17 pm

Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: TFTD campaign

#69 Postby Alan H » April 19th, 2009, 8:59 pm

The BHA issued a press release a few days ago. It is embargoed until midnight tonight, but I assume the journos ignored that. I'll post it tomorrow.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 22257
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: TFTD campaign

#70 Postby Alan H » July 13th, 2009, 9:35 pm

********************************************************************************
Humanists welcome new hope for 'Thought for the Day'
http://www.humanism.org.uk/news/view/318
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Humanists welcome new hope for 'Thought for the Day'

The British Humanist Association (BHA) has welcomed news that the BBC Trust is considering the inclusion of humanist contributors as well as religious ones on the Radio 4 programme ‘Thought for the Day’.



Andrew Copson, director of education and public affairs at the BHA, who was recently invited to join a new body liaising with the BBC on religion and belief issues said, ‘Reflective thoughts on the events of the day do not come only from people with "a faith" so it is wrong for the BBC – which has obligations to its many humanist listeners just as to its religious ones – to exclude non-religious contributors from Thought for the Day. The slot could only be enhanced by the inclusion of perspectives from the rich tradition of humanist thought and reflection and the inclusion of humanist contributors on Thought for the Day would be an excellent way for the BBC to meet its obligations under its charter to cater for citizens of all religious and non-religious beliefs.’

[Retrieved: Mon Jul 13 2009 21:34:39 GMT+0100 (GMT Daylight Time)]

###################
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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lewist
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Joined: July 4th, 2007, 8:53 pm

Re: TFTD campaign

#71 Postby lewist » July 14th, 2009, 7:52 am

We only hear about Radio 4 when it comes to this. It would be good to think that this would also extend to the same issue on Good Morning Scotland which is the equivalent programme here.
Carpe diem. Savour every moment.

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Nick
Posts: 10848
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: TFTD campaign

#72 Postby Nick » July 17th, 2009, 10:15 am

Hmmm. Had I found this thread at the time, I was going to say that there is a debate going on at the Beeb about TFTD becoming more inclusive. I was going to point to some of the comments on the Today message board, but it now appears to have disappeared.... :puzzled:


And should we also be complaining about the absolute twaddle which is spouted on Terry Wogan's programme? Today some idiot was saying that science and religion were in agreement; that science asked the how questions and religion the why. Science says life comes from carbon, religion that we were created because of the love of god.... :sick:

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coffee
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Joined: June 2nd, 2009, 4:53 pm

Show your support here please

#73 Postby coffee » July 21st, 2009, 11:03 am


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getreal
Posts: 4353
Joined: November 20th, 2008, 5:40 pm

Re: Show your support here please

#74 Postby getreal » July 21st, 2009, 11:12 am

The comment about Lionel Blues (sic.) was amusing.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

Maria Mac
Site Admin
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:34 pm

Re: Show your support here please

#75 Postby Maria Mac » July 21st, 2009, 12:16 pm

I've merged the two posts above with the existing thread on TFTD.

Dan
Posts: 298
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 5:05 pm

Re: TFTD campaign

#76 Postby Dan » July 21st, 2009, 1:18 pm

It's worth noting that it's the National Secular Society's complaint that has finally found its way to the trustees, to be taken alongside complaints from individuals. I don't think the BHA took this approach.

http://www.secularism.org.uk/thought-for-the-day-is-the-end-i.html

Dan

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Nick
Posts: 10848
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: TFTD campaign

#77 Postby Nick » August 3rd, 2009, 8:50 am

Did anyone catch TFTD today? For the first time that I can ever recall, the speaker did not mention god, or if he did, I missed it. What he did, may the lord be praised, is to criticise the Archbishop of Westminster's comment about social web-sites like Facebook, Myspace etc.

The supreme irony, of course, is that the Archbishop is criticising kids for communicating with other real kids, while advocating that they communicate daily with an imaginary friend. :laughter:

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Nick
Posts: 10848
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: TFTD campaign

#78 Postby Nick » August 19th, 2009, 5:54 pm

Another binful of garbage from Anne Atkins yesterday.



Thought for the Day, 18 August 2009

Anne Atkins

What intrigued me about the latest release of documents on UFO reports was how sightings increase after telly programmes on the paranormal. When the X Files is on, flying saucers seem rife. It's a commonplace truism that we see what we expect to see. Try wheeling someone else's baby around for the afternoon, and count how many people tell you the child is your spitting image and the family likeness is striking.

When we're expecting aliens we'll see them. Which is why so many children's books feature magic which adults can't discern: their expectations are fully formed and inflexible, whereas the young are still open-minded and able to imagine the impossible.

We also interpret evidence to make it feasible. Suppose you saw a dog driving a car. After blinking hard, you'd draw some reasonable conclusion. It's a left hand drive and the dog is merely the passenger. Or the driver is going to a sea-dog-themed party as a Newfoundland

Now tell me, Anne. Why can't you apply that logic to religion? If you are told that a woman conceived without the help of a man, that a man converted water into wine and rose from the dead, don't you think that there might be a more sensible explanation that that the story told by ignorant iron age peasants might be true?

A man was convinced he was dead. His doctor tried everything to persuade him otherwise. Finally he asked whether corpses bleed. "No," said his patient. So his doctor pricked him and drew blood. He stared at his wound, astonished, expectations confounded, and then said, "Well what do you know? The dead can bleed."

Well, Anne. An outstanding example of religious perspective. How we laughed! Except that you make exactly the same mistake, over and over!

We see what we want, as well as what we expect. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear," Jesus said.
Allegedly

If you're not willing to listen you ain't gonna get the message. It's often argued that people only experience God because they want to, and it's certainly true that many, perhaps most, of us long for the supernatural, or some ultimate good, or an existence beyond this one.
Yup! Got it in one! People believe in god for reasons of confort or lack of alternative, not because it is true. Are we getting somewhere now?

Errr... no.

This argument cuts both ways though because it also begs the question: why? If this world were perfectly satisfying - emotionally or intellectually - we wouldn't feel this god-shaped gap.
WTF should the world be be "perfectly satisfying"? Indeed it is arguable that it is precisely because the world is not perfectly satisfying to humans that we have had any progress whatsoever. If we were perfectly satisfied plucking fruit from jungle trees, we are unlikely to have evolved any further, are we? Maybe that would have been a good thing, Anne. Waddya think?

If OTOH you would prefer a bit of progress, even though it comes with pain, unhappiness and awareness of unanswered questions, why should that gap be "god" shaped? Evidently, as we humans progress, and answer more and more questions, and thereby shrink the size and scope for a god of the gaps, the shape of god changes and diminishes on an ongoing basis.

Which makes it all the more compelling when someone is convinced against his will. CS Lewis called himself the most reluctant convert to Christianity in all England
what's this? Ah yes, an appeal to authority. So what? It proves absolutley nothing. Would CS Lewis be a christian today? Not if I could help it!
but even he wasn't as obstinate as Saul of Tarsus, the greatest enemy Jesus had. He stood by while Christians were martyred, and was on a campaign to eradicate them when he was struck blind on the road to Damascus and heard the voice of the risen Lord. Nobody could have wanted to believe less than he.
He was, in all likelihood, scared out of his mind by an epileptic fit, and being ignorant, drew precisely the wrong conclusion. One may have sympathy, but to turn one's ignorance into a fatal obsession is not exactly a good thing, is it? And to believe and follow such a man...not exactly wise, wouldn't you say?

Even Jesus' closest friends never expected to see Him again. No one returns from the dead, no one. So when He did, they didn't recognise Him. Mary Magdelene watched him die. When she saw Him alive again less than 48 hours later she knew He couldn't be, so concluded He must be the gardener. Mary the wife of Cleopas was also there when He died. That same Sunday evening her husband told the whole story to a stranger as they walked seven miles to Emmaus. It wasn't until that stranger said grace at the dinner table that Cleopas acknowledged who He was.
So why do you believe this story to be accurate? Wouldn't it be more reasonable, as you implied earlier, that either he hadn't died, or that it wasn't him after all. Dunno, myself, but just ask David Blaine. I'm sure he could help you. I'm sure there are more likely explanations than that a divine human has returned from the dead.

"When there is no other explanation, Watson, even the impossible must be the truth."
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
What's this? another appeal to authority?

Actually no. It's a complete lack of scholarship. And an attempt to deceive, unforgivable in a BBC broadcast.

What Conan Doyle actually wrote was:

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth


Now let's see. The impossible: rising from the dead.

The improbable: that several people suffering from grief may have been mistaken. Or that ignorant humans, searching for explanation are driven to postulate an impossible explanation.

Not only is it appalling that TFTD should continue on the Today programme, but to include Anne Atkins shows a severe lack of judgment. The only thing which may be said in its favour is that it may hasten the end of this idiocy.

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Alan H
Posts: 22257
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: TFTD campaign

#79 Postby Alan H » August 20th, 2009, 12:02 am

Ooooohhh! That got you riled, didn't it?!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Nick
Posts: 10848
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: TFTD campaign

#80 Postby Nick » August 20th, 2009, 8:56 am

Yes it did! I've complained to the BBC and asked for an apology for the error and a correction, as well as the opportunity for rebuttal.

I'll post their reply.

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Alan C.
Posts: 10356
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 3:35 pm

Re: TFTD campaign

#81 Postby Alan C. » August 20th, 2009, 6:32 pm

You might like this quote Nick, from a post at Freethinker.
Broga
Thought for the Day recently were typically sly: if you cannot find an explanation then it has to be god. Didn't hear it myself. My wife did and apart from misquoting Conan Doyle, Atkins was as vile and fuckwit as usual. How much longer is this going on? She has to be removed and that sick santimonious verbal sewage with her.

From this article.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.


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