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Atheist school's values & ethics

For discussions related to education and educational institutions.
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coffee
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Atheist school's values & ethics

#1 Postby coffee » July 30th, 2010, 10:23 am

I read that Richard Dawkin interested in running an atheist school so I thought that the following ethics and values for atheist school should be considered

Versions of the ten secular commandments

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Comman ... ternatives
http://tellapallet.com/ten_commandments.htm
http://www.thecodeforglobalethics.com/p ... e877a.html
http://www.webspawner.com/users/humanist10/
http://www.globalideasbank.org/site/ban ... deaId=2963
http://www.iamanatheist.com/rights.html


Secular graces

http://humgroups.humanist.org.uk/Grace.html
http://www.secularseasons.org/celebrations/graces.html
http://www.churchoffreethought.org/inde ... &Itemid=84


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The Affirmations of Humanism:
A Statement of Principles
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.ph ... firmations
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The Ethics of Humanism Without Religion
by Paul Kurtz

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/ ... 23_1_1.htm

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The Core Principles
of Secular Humanism
Twelve Fundamental Principles
Stated and Examined
by Victor A. Gunasekara

http://uqconnect.net/slsoc/manussa/coreprin.htm


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NEO-HUMANIST STATEMENT
OF SECULAR PRINCIPLES AND VALUES:
PERSONAL, PROGRESSIVE, AND PLANETARY

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

FRIENDSHIP Featured at May 2010 Service
Written by Administrator http://www.churchoffreethought.org/

1. TRUST (We need to be able to trust and to be loyal to our friends.)
2. HONESTY (Tactful honesty is a foundation of friendship!)
3. RESPECT (We honour our disagreements as well as our agreements and respect healthy boundaries.)
4. ACCEPTANCE (We want to “be ourselves” with our friends and accept our friends for who they are as well.)
5. SHARED INTERESTS (It makes it easier to have friends when we can do things together.)
6. SHARED VALUES (The most solid friendships depend on similar core values.)
7. COOPERATION (Friendships depend on a certain level of working together to foster and support the friendship and its needs.)
8. RELIABILITY (Friends rely on each other so friends need to be dependable.)
9. SUPPORT (As Mark Twain put it, we want friends that can defend us when we’re in the wrong since nearly everyone will defend us when we’re in the right!)
10. UNDERSTANDING (Most people would rather be understood even more than agreed with.)
11. SENSITIVITY (Friends who know us can often know how we are feeling.)
12. RECIPROCITY (What we expect or do with or for our friends is what is expected of us.)
13. ABILITY TO COMPROMISE (Friends are willing to “give in” at times and let the other person have something their way.)
14. SENSE OF EQUALITY (It is hard to have a real friendship with someone that we are either responsible to or for. This is why it doesn’t work out well for a parent to try to be “best friends” with their child(ren).)
15. FORGIVENESS (Too much to say about this! And even with friends forgiving is not the same as forgetting or even setting ourselves up for another cause for forgiveness.)

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Dave B
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#2 Postby Dave B » July 30th, 2010, 10:58 am

Thanks for all those links, coffee, lots of reading there!

I had been trying to (re)find the "Affirmations of Humanism ... ..." one for some time, I needed it on another forum but could not remember it!

I think that there is some tautology there and it seems to miss the desire that all humans should be allowed and aided to develop their natural aptitudes to the fullest extent.


Now, is atheism directly synonymous with Humanism? I don't think it is. As many theists love to point out atheism has included some pretty nasty people and regimes (though they always get Hitler and Mussolini wrong!) Humanism can be described as a belief system and though humanist schools would not be "faith schools" as the term "faith" is used in this context they could come perilously close - unless they allowed those with a natural inclination towards a spiritualistic belief the chance to develop as well.

"Secular schools" sounds better, but many would claim that all state schools are secular, even though an act of worship is required and truly balanced comparative "belief education" is rarely offered.

Choosing a school for children always seems to be something of a compromise for the truly thinking parent/guardian. Someone said that an atheist school was not possible for there may be as many types of atheist as there are atheists - and not all such subscribe to the tenets listed in the "Affirmation".

But, this still supposes that parents/guardians will do the choosing - what about the child's rights of decision? Is "pushing" one's child into a Humanist school close to a Catholic pushing theirs into a "faith school"? But children are not qualified to make their own decisions.

I will watch with great interest to see how this idea develops.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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jaywhat
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#3 Postby jaywhat » July 30th, 2010, 11:29 am

I would say yes to secular schools - in fact I believe all schools should be secular; and, of course, many are - more or less.

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Manuel
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#4 Postby Manuel » July 30th, 2010, 3:16 pm

I don't see why it's necessary to mimic religious models. If grace is not appropriate, which obviously it wouldn't be in a secular school, then get rid of it. Same for the commandments. Ok, if it's a bit of fun then fine, but isn't the entire point that there is no commander, we are not being commanded. This is exactly the sort of model we should be trying to discourage. There are better ways to teach values and ethics, in my opinion.

Naturally I am also wholeheartedly in favour of secular schooling for our children.

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Gottard
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#5 Postby Gottard » July 30th, 2010, 10:32 pm

I subscribe to Dawkin's idea to set up secular schools, especially if we (BHA) cannot win over the academies' governmental project.
Join them, if you cannot fight them
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience

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Fia
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#6 Postby Fia » July 31st, 2010, 8:59 pm

Manuel wrote:I don't see why it's necessary to mimic religious models.

Quite.
Our children don't need commandments that they can passively follow, they need to learn the skills of critical thinking to be able to actively carve their own furrows.

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Lifelinking
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#7 Postby Lifelinking » July 31st, 2010, 9:15 pm

^^ yes - what Manuel and Fia said ^^
"Who thinks the law has anything to do with justice? It's what we have because we can't have justice."
William McIlvanney

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coffee
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#8 Postby coffee » August 2nd, 2010, 9:52 am

Thank you all very much for yours views.

Dan
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#9 Postby Dan » August 6th, 2010, 12:13 pm

What Dawkins actually said, during his mumsnet appearance (http://bit.ly/bx30jc, is this:

Thank you for suggesting that I should start an atheist free school. I like the idea very much, although I would prefer to call it a free-thinking free school. I would never want to indoctrinate children in atheism, any more than in religion.


I'm a secularist. That means I'm against state-funded atheist schools just as much as I am against state-funded religious schools. I'm not sure whether "atheist free school" means a state-funded one or a private but no-fees one.

Dan

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Gottard
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#10 Postby Gottard » August 6th, 2010, 9:14 pm

Dan wrote:I'm a secularist. That means I'm against state-funded atheist schools just as much as I am against state-funded religious schools. I'm not sure whether "atheist free school" means a state-funded one or a private but no-fees one.Dan

I think he meant "in the frame of the academies' project.

With deeper hindsight I think that the negative aspect of this academies project can turn out to be a substantial opportunity for the Humanist cause to demonstrate the validity of the evolutionist method in fostering an open mind in children.
Religions invest in sumptuous cathedrals; we Humanists instead, can decide to invest in children intelligent education :thumbsup:
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience

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Nick
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#11 Postby Nick » August 7th, 2010, 2:11 am

Dan wrote: I'm a secularist. That means I'm against state-funded atheist schools just as much as I am against state-funded religious schools.
Hmmm....I can't see how an education can exclude the question of whether there is a god. And as there isn't, then education must say so or it is not being honest. Why should we atheists hold our tongues? Especially when we are right? :D

I'm not sure whether "atheist free school" means a state-funded one or a private but no-fees one.
Where have you found a private but no fees school? It means state-funded or more accurately, tax-payer funded.

Dan
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#12 Postby Dan » August 10th, 2010, 1:52 pm

Nick wrote:
Dan wrote: I'm a secularist. That means I'm against state-funded atheist schools just as much as I am against state-funded religious schools.
Hmmm....I can't see how an education can exclude the question of whether there is a god. And as there isn't, then education must say so or it is not being honest. Why should we atheists hold our tongues? Especially when we are right? :D

I'm not sure whether "atheist free school" means a state-funded one or a private but no-fees one.
Where have you found a private but no fees school? It means state-funded or more accurately, tax-payer funded.


As an atheist, I'd love to know what your knock-down proof of the non-existence of a creative deity is.
Whether we are right or not, and I think we are, I think there is still room for reasonable doubt on the question. In other words, while I don't think there is a God, and I think I can justify that position, I don't think you can say that no reasonable person can disagree. That being so, it is definitely not on - on secularist principle - for the state to sponsor a position.

Education can include discussion of the topic, of course. It's not about "atheists holding their tongues", it's about what the State should do.

I asked about the "free school", as I was used to the term in anarchist educational writings. But I see it is used by the government, and so does indeed refer to state-funded schools.

DAn

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Nick
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#13 Postby Nick » August 10th, 2010, 2:10 pm

Dan wrote:As an atheist, I'd love to know what your knock-down proof of the non-existence of a creative deity is.
Whether we are right or not, and I think we are, I think there is still room for reasonable doubt on the question. In other words, while I don't think there is a God, and I think I can justify that position, I don't think you can say that no reasonable person can disagree. That being so, it is definitely not on - on secularist principle - for the state to sponsor a position. /quote]I had, rather helpfully, I hoped, put a smiley at the end of my paragraph. It was not intended to be taken entirely literally. But your conclusion is rather strange. If the state is to set out what should be included within education, it necessarily does take up a position on all sorts of things, whether it is the relative truth of Newtonian gravity, Euclidian geometry or the value of Shakespeare. I see no difficulty in the state also taking the view that though proving the non-existence of a god is not currently possible, education should still indicate that there is probably no god.

Education can include discussion of the topic, of course. It's not about "atheists holding their tongues", it's about what the State should do.
Hmmm.... It's about what is the most likely working hypothosis (to borrow from TubaTD). The religious don't spot the irony in their demand for respect and the propmotion of their myths.

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coffee
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#14 Postby coffee » February 9th, 2011, 10:44 am

Interesting websites


Secular ethics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_ethics

Humanist Declaration on the Preservation of Families
http://www.njhn.org/family_declaration.html

What happens when you die?
http://www.secularderby.org/index.html
http://www.secularderby.org/big.htm

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coffee
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#15 Postby coffee » February 15th, 2011, 10:36 am

http://uqconnect.net/slsoc/manussa/coreprin.htm

H11. The following ethical principles should in general be promoted:

Abstaining from conduct injurious to life and the physical well-being of persons.
Abstaining from the theft of property of others
Abstaining from sexual violence and misconduct
Abstaining from falsehood, fraud and deception
Abstaining from drunkenness, narcotics and mind bending drugs


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http://home.alphalink.com.au/~jperkins/humoral.htm#ref
A basic set of eight such principles, together with brief annotations, has been suggested by Resnik:
Non-malificence: Do not harm yourself or other people.
Beneficence: Help yourself and other people.
Autonomy: Allow rational individuals to make free and informed choices.
Justice: Treat people fairly: treat equals equally, unequals unequally.
Utility: Maximize the ratio of benefits to harms for all people.
Fidelity: Keep your promises and agreements
Honesty: Do not lie, defraud, deceive or mislead.
Privacy: Respect personal privacy and confidentiality.

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http://www.infed.org/biblio/learning-humanistic.htm
Humanistic orientations to learning
Level one: Physiological needs such as hunger, thirst, sex, sleep, relaxation and bodily integrity must be satisfied before the next level comes into play.
Level two: Safety needs call for a predictable and orderly world. If these are not satisfied people will look to organize their worlds to provide for the greatest degree of safety and security. If satisfied, people will come under the force of level three.
Level three: Love and belonginess needs cause people to seek warm and friendly relationships.
Level four: Self-esteem needs involve the desire for strength, achievement, adequacy, mastery and competence. They also involve confidence, independence, reputation and prestige.
Level five: Self-actualization is the full use and expression of talents, capacities and potentialities.
Self actualizers are able to submit to social regulation without losing their own integrity or personal independence; that is they may follow a social norm without their horizons being bounded in the sense that they fail to see or consider other possibilities. They may on occasion transcend the socially prescribed ways of acting. Achieving this level may mean developing to the full stature of which they are capable. (Tennant 1997: 13)
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THE TRIAX

http://www.westlondon.humanist.org.uk/Triax.html

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Due to my strict upbringing I was not taught to think for myself, as a result I am not a natural humanist so I find that the above humanists values and secular ethics are very helpful because it help me to order my life.

I feel that telling myself that religion is wrong is not enough, I have to have a certain humanist values and ethics that I feel positive about written down so that I can read and can share it with people likes myself


Since my English as a second language I may not understand some ethics & values (rules). So if you find one that is/are unreasonable restricting one imagination, ability, irrationality, unnatural, illiberal or irrelevant please let me know so that I can be careful of it or can just ignore it. Also if any one find anything that is not already mentioned here or better explain please also let me know. I would like to read them and to make this thread as a secular & humanists values & ethics thread for people like myself.

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coffee
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#16 Postby coffee » February 20th, 2011, 1:11 pm

Here is another good one


HUMANISM AND ITS ASPIRATIONS
Humanist Manifesto III

http://www.americanhumanist.org/Who_We_ ... ifesto_III

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Alan C.
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#17 Postby Alan C. » February 20th, 2011, 5:03 pm

Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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coffee
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#18 Postby coffee » February 22nd, 2011, 9:52 am

And this one

Amsterdam Declaration 2002
http://www.iheu.org/adamdecl.htm

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coffee
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#19 Postby coffee » March 19th, 2011, 10:16 am


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coffee
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Re: Atheist school's values & ethics

#20 Postby coffee » April 17th, 2011, 12:14 pm



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