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Homeopathy

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Maria Mac
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Homeopathy

#1 Postby Maria Mac » October 1st, 2007, 1:53 pm

Although there are posts on homeopathy in the Complementary Therapies thread, including a link to Alan's presentation, which focusses largely on homeopathy, I thought I'd start a new thread rather than make that one any longer in order to post some links that I've found, which people interested in the subject may find useful.

First some links that prove homeopathy works. :rolleyes:

http://www.hominf.org/proving.htm

http://www.btinternet.com/~wellmother/venusbase.htm

I thought the latter was a spoof:

The remedy was made from the focussed light of the planet Venus.


But the person who appears to have written it appears on many other sites as a genuine homeopathist.


Here's a link to a piece by the Director of the London homeopathic hospital. He helpfully provides a list of those PCTs that are refusing to fund homeopathy.

http://www.naturalmatters.net/article.a ... 032&cat=85


Here's a link to what seems like quite a good leaflet by 'sense about science'.

Here's a link to a follow-up summary of the BBC Horizon programme, which I personally found quite informative.


Finally, here's a link to the EDM opposing the closure of NHS homeopathic hospitals and the list of MPs who signed it.

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetai ... ESSION=885

Firebrand
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Re: Homeopathy

#2 Postby Firebrand » October 2nd, 2007, 1:13 pm

Maria wrote:First some links that prove homeopathy works. :rolleyes:

http://www.hominf.org/proving.htm

http://www.btinternet.com/~wellmother/venusbase.htm

I thought the latter was a spoof:

The remedy was made from the focussed light of the planet Venus.


But the person who appears to have written it appears on many other sites as a genuine homeopathist.



Can't it still be a spoof? I've just read that page in some detail and I can't believe it's genuine. It's shocking!

I recall reading somewhere about a webpage which was a spoof even though it used the names of real doctors. I'm not sure if it was on this forum that I read it.

Noggin
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Re: Homeopathy

#3 Postby Noggin » October 2nd, 2007, 6:25 pm

Firebrand wrote:
Can't it still be a spoof? I've just read that page in some detail and I can't believe it's genuine. It's shocking!

I recall reading somewhere about a webpage which was a spoof even though it used the names of real doctors. I'm not sure if it was on this forum that I read it.


You may be thinking of this thread where Maria points out that this website, which is believed to be satire, contains the name of genuine doctors and people who've had abortions.

Funnily enough, that page has now disappeared from the site, which has also changed its name to Republican Faith.

Maybe they were threatened with legal action.
It is the still and silent sea that drowns a man. -- Old Norse Proverb

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#4 Postby Maria Mac » October 17th, 2007, 9:30 pm

In case those concerned about the ridiculous claims of homeopathists haven't heard of the latest row, here is a link which links to a great many other sites covering the story.

Basically a piece appearing on the Quackometer blog entitled The Gentle Art of Homeopathic Killing was removed a few days ago after as a result of threatening letters from lawyers acting on behalf of the Society of Homeopaths.

It's a shame because the piece was about the unbelievably irreponsible practice of selling homeopathic anti-malaria pills. On the other hand, it has ensured great publicity for the piece and it's also being reproduced all over the web. Here is one site that reproduces it.

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Alan H
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#5 Postby Alan H » October 17th, 2007, 11:13 pm

I don 't think I've mentioned it, but I've put in a complaint about the website of the Society of Homoeopaths to my local Trading Standards:

Hi

I'd like to complain about the claims made on a website and I believe this falls within your remit.

The Society of Homeopaths makes several claims on their website at http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/whats-new ... heets.aspx. This particular page purports to be 'Fact sheets', and makes the following claims, with my comments in red on each of these:

1. Homeopathy can seriously improve your health.
I doubt they could supply evidence to support this claim.

2. Reliable evidence shows that homeopathy is effective in the treatment of common mental health problems, female hormonal disorders (such as PMS) and a range of allergies including eczema
I doubt they could supply evidence to support this claim.

3. Homeopathy treats "like with like". So coffee, which causes sleeplessness in some people, can be used as a homeopathic treatment to prevent insomnia.
The basis for homeopathy is disputed and there is no evidence that a homeopathic coffee preparation prevents insomnia.

4. Homeopathy takes a holistic approach, seeking to treat the whole person and patients receive unique treatment and individualised prescriptions.
This is designed to give the (false) impression that conventional medicine is ineffective or in some way lacking. This could persuade vulnerable or gullible people not to visit their GP and suffer as a result of serious conditions not being diagnosed.

5. Homeopathic treatment can be effective very quickly.
I doubt they could supply evidence to support this claim.

6. Homeopathy is not a placebo.
I doubt they could supply evidence to support this claim. Properly controlled, double blind, placebo controlled trials have shown that homeopathy is no better than placebo. I doubt they could supply evidence to support this claim.

7. Homeopathy is proven to be effective in the treatment of babies and animals, who have no preconceptions.
I doubt they could supply evidence to support this claim.

I also believe that the following are misleading:

8. The latest pan-European research on homeopathic dilutions has shown that they do affect living human cells (April 2004)
I have not seen this research, but this small claim would tend to lead the reader to the conclusion that many or all homeopathic remedies are efficacious.

9. 2004 research at Sheffield University on chronic fatigue syndrome has shown that homeopathic treatment can improve energy levels
I have not seen this research, but this small claim would tend to lead the reader to the conclusion that many or all homeopathic remedies are efficacious.

It is well known that there is no scientific basis for the way homeopathy is claimed to work. It is also well known that properly controlled, double blind, placebo controlled trials have shown that homeopathy is no better than placebo. (For example, see the work done by Professor Edzard Ernst at the Peninsula Medical School at the University of Exeter - http://www.pms.ac.uk/compmed.)

I believe these claims are unfounded and will lead the vulnerable and gullible into believing that homeopathy can cure them, that it may dissuade them from seeking proper medical advice, particularly for serious conditions, and that they spend money unnecessarily.

I have selected a few claims they have made, but there are many others on their website that do the same: mislead and are potentially dangerous.

I would be grateful for your comments on my complaint and what the process is for pursuing this complaint.

If you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Best regards
I have been contacted by someone at Trading Standards wanting to talk to me about it, but I was just about to go to the USA, so I said I'd contact them when I return. I'll try to do that in the next day or so, and I'll keep everyone informed.

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#6 Postby Alan H » October 20th, 2007, 12:42 pm

Maria wrote:In case those concerned about the ridiculous claims of homeopathists haven't heard of the latest row, here is a link which links to a great many other sites covering the story.

Basically a piece appearing on the Quackometer blog entitled The Gentle Art of Homeopathic Killing was removed a few days ago after as a result of threatening letters from lawyers acting on behalf of the Society of Homeopaths.

It's a shame because the piece was about the unbelievably irreponsible practice of selling homeopathic anti-malaria pills. On the other hand, it has ensured great publicity for the piece and it's also being reproduced all over the web. Here is one site that reproduces it.
I'll post Ben Goldacre's latest epistle on this shortly, but try Googling "The Society of Homeopaths". The article they wanted to censor (and discussion on it), makes it to number three!

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Alan C.
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#7 Postby Alan C. » October 20th, 2007, 6:22 pm

Homeopaths find criticism hard to swallow An article from today's Guardian.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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#8 Postby Lifelinking » October 20th, 2007, 6:28 pm

That's a good article Alan
"Who thinks the law has anything to do with justice? It's what we have because we can't have justice."
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Maria Mac
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#9 Postby Maria Mac » October 22nd, 2007, 4:08 pm

I'm delighted to hear that West Kent Primary Care Trust is withdrawing funding from Tunbridge Wells Homeopathic Hospital, which will result in its closure. One down, four to go. Bit worried about the strength of the opposition, though. Rent-a-mob can be pretty scary when drawn from the ranks of the disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.

Here's a pic of a demonstration against the closure.


:exit:

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Alan C.
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#10 Postby Alan C. » October 22nd, 2007, 5:35 pm

Maria
Here's a pic of a demonstration against the closure.
Not really on a par with the Phelps family :laughter:
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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#11 Postby para handy » October 22nd, 2007, 5:48 pm

If you click on the pic of the demo it gets much bigger. I'd be very, very afraid.

:supershock:

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#12 Postby Maria Mac » November 4th, 2007, 10:27 pm

I know this is a week old but I meant to repost it here from the MediaScan last Sunday but forgot. I'm going to stick both this thread and the other one about complementary therapies to the top.

The cranks who swear by citronella oil

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#13 Postby jaywhat » November 16th, 2007, 1:09 pm

Today -
by Ben Goldacre in Guardian G2 - absolutely brilliant article.

kbell
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#14 Postby kbell » November 16th, 2007, 3:15 pm

jaywhat wrote:Today -
by Ben Goldacre in Guardian G2 - absolutely brilliant article.


Et voila! A kind of magic?

On Tuesday, to my great delight, the author Jeanette Winterson launched a scientific defence of homeopathy in these pages. She used words such as "nano" meaninglessly, she suggested that there is a role for homeopathy in the treatment of HIV in Africa, and she said that an article in the Lancet today will call on doctors to tell their patients that homeopathic "medicines" offer no benefit.

The article does not say that, and I should know, because I wrote it.


Here's the Winterson piece:

In defence of homeopathy

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gcb01
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#15 Postby gcb01 » November 16th, 2007, 6:14 pm

I think Ben's article is the definitive one on homoeopathy - absolutely brilliant.
Regards

Campbell

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Alan H
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#16 Postby Alan H » November 16th, 2007, 9:46 pm

Extremely good! I can just imagine him fuming over the keyboard as he wrote it.

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Lifelinking
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#17 Postby Lifelinking » November 16th, 2007, 11:12 pm

Here's a pic of a demonstration against the closure.



so, if it is a demonstration about homeopathy, does that mean that the more strongly that people care about it the fewer of them turn up?


L
"Who thinks the law has anything to do with justice? It's what we have because we can't have justice."
William McIlvanney

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Alan C.
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#18 Postby Alan C. » November 16th, 2007, 11:30 pm

Lifelinking wrote:
Here's a pic of a demonstration against the closure.



so, if it is a demonstration about homeopathy, does that mean that the more strongly that people care about it the fewer of them turn up?


L
Life (can I call you that for short?)
If you click on the pic and enlarge it, the wife on the far left bears a striking resemblance HRH. Or is it photoshoped?
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Lifelinking
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#19 Postby Lifelinking » November 16th, 2007, 11:42 pm

HRH?

Is that some kind of hormone replacement thingy?
"Who thinks the law has anything to do with justice? It's what we have because we can't have justice."
William McIlvanney

kbell
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#20 Postby kbell » November 17th, 2007, 12:24 am

Alan C. wrote:If you click on the pic and enlarge it, the wife on the far left bears a striking resemblance HRH. Or is it photoshoped?


How do you know she's married? :grin:


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