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Is logical thinking fundamentally biased?

Enter here to explore ethical issues and discuss the meaning and source of morality.
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lucagrabacr
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Joined: October 22nd, 2014, 8:19 am

Is logical thinking fundamentally biased?

#1 Postby lucagrabacr » October 25th, 2014, 1:54 pm

What is a logical outcome? Let's say we're finally able to harness all the power in the universe(s), reverse entropy (thus canceling the demise of the universe as we know it), and ultimately preserve the continuation of our race and other species for all eternity, then after all that, what's the point?

What's the fundamental difference we made then, other than being able to understand everything and populating the universe with living beings? Did we invent importance? Was it simply non-existent before? Is there any point in everything other than the ones we made ourselves?
When I'm told to think, I just can't see what I see when I'm thinking for myself

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Dave B
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Re: Is logical thinking fundamentally biased?

#2 Postby Dave B » October 25th, 2014, 5:31 pm

Luca - I am not really up on logic but I feel that you have not posed your opening question well.
Logic, as I understand it, constrains the answer within the problem or question itself - there can be no other valid outcome (think there is a name for this.)

There are others here who know more of the structure of logic than I and I await their input with interest!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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lucagrabacr
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Re: Is logical thinking fundamentally biased?

#3 Postby lucagrabacr » October 25th, 2014, 6:45 pm

Dave B wrote:Luca - I am not really up on logic but I feel that you have not posed your opening question well.
Logic, as I understand it, constrains the answer within the problem or question itself - there can be no other valid outcome (think there is a name for this.)

There are others here who know more of the structure of logic than I and I await their input with interest!



Oh my, where's that edit button (on mobile atm). I meant to say 'logical goal' :grin:
When I'm told to think, I just can't see what I see when I'm thinking for myself

Ron Webb
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Re: Is logical thinking fundamentally biased?

#4 Postby Ron Webb » October 26th, 2014, 3:56 pm

lucagrabacr wrote:What is a logical outcome? Let's say we're finally able to harness all the power in the universe(s), reverse entropy (thus canceling the demise of the universe as we know it), and ultimately preserve the continuation of our race and other species for all eternity, then after all that, what's the point?

What's the fundamental difference we made then, other than being able to understand everything and populating the universe with living beings? Did we invent importance? Was it simply non-existent before? Is there any point in everything other than the ones we made ourselves?

Are you happy, lucagrabacr? If you're happy, then that's the point. If not, then the point is to find something that makes you happy. Honestly, why do people have to make things so complicated?

As Carl Sagan famously said, if you want your life to have meaning, then do something meaningful. As for myself, I am content to be happy, and to make others happy when I can.

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Dave B
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Re: Is logical thinking fundamentally biased?

#5 Postby Dave B » October 26th, 2014, 4:41 pm

As for myself, I am content to be happy, and to make others happy when I can.
Excellent philosophy, Ron :smile:
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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lucagrabacr
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Re: Is logical thinking fundamentally biased?

#6 Postby lucagrabacr » October 27th, 2014, 9:24 am

Ron Webb wrote:Are you happy, lucagrabacr? If you're happy, then that's the point. If not, then the point is to find something that makes you happy. Honestly, why do people have to make things so complicated?

As Carl Sagan famously said, if you want your life to have meaning, then do something meaningful. As for myself, I am content to be happy, and to make others happy when I can.


I am happy, and I strive to do meaningful things. And I think I just answered my own question some times after I posted this topic. In my opinion, we did invent meaning, importance, and significance in regard to everything.

And you're right, over-complicating it is like counting infinite continued fraction, it's irrational and has no practical purpose :)

Ron Webb wrote:why do people have to make things so complicated?.
When I'm told to think, I just can't see what I see when I'm thinking for myself

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Dave B
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Re: Is logical thinking fundamentally biased?

#7 Postby Dave B » October 27th, 2014, 10:15 am

lucagrabacr wrote:
Ron Webb wrote:Are you happy, lucagrabacr? If you're happy, then that's the point. If not, then the point is to find something that makes you happy. Honestly, why do people have to make things so complicated?

As Carl Sagan famously said, if you want your life to have meaning, then do something meaningful. As for myself, I am content to be happy, and to make others happy when I can.


I am happy, and I strive to do meaningful things. And I think I just answered my own question some times after I posted this topic. In my opinion, we did invent meaning, importance, and significance in regard to everything.

And you're right, over-complicating it is like counting infinite continued fraction, it's irrational and has no practical purpose :)

Ron Webb wrote:why do people have to make things so complicated?.
You last quote from Ron went un-commented by you, Luca. Pity, it was quite important in my scheme of things and reflects something you said earlier, "...I strive to do meaningful things." So stop striving! Striving uses up energy, both physical and emotional, that you could better use in other ways. Do not look for problems to solve, they will find you soon enough!

It's a matter of observation and sense I think. Whilst driving I do not look for opportunities to do the other drivers favours, that often confuses them and may actually cause an accident. Better to simply observe the road ahead in general and, if the opportunity arises in a safe manner for all, hold up the queue of vehicles behind me to let the other turn across my traffic stream. A sudden stop in such cases is not a good idea!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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lucagrabacr
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Re: Is logical thinking fundamentally biased?

#8 Postby lucagrabacr » October 27th, 2014, 12:01 pm

Dave B wrote:
lucagrabacr wrote:
Ron Webb wrote:Are you happy, lucagrabacr? If you're happy, then that's the point. If not, then the point is to find something that makes you happy. Honestly, why do people have to make things so complicated?

As Carl Sagan famously said, if you want your life to have meaning, then do something meaningful. As for myself, I am content to be happy, and to make others happy when I can.


I am happy, and I strive to do meaningful things. And I think I just answered my own question some times after I posted this topic. In my opinion, we did invent meaning, importance, and significance in regard to everything.

And you're right, over-complicating it is like counting infinite continued fraction, it's irrational and has no practical purpose :)

Ron Webb wrote:why do people have to make things so complicated?.
You last quote from Ron went un-commented by you, Luca.


I pre-answered the quote with my last line :smile:

lucagrabacr wrote:And you're right, over-complicating it is like counting infinite continued fraction, it's irrational and has no practical purpose :)
When I'm told to think, I just can't see what I see when I'm thinking for myself

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Dave B
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Re: Is logical thinking fundamentally biased?

#9 Postby Dave B » October 27th, 2014, 12:14 pm

Oops, it's me age yer know...

(Well, that's my standard excuse for not reading things properly! :D )
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Ron Webb
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Re: Is logical thinking fundamentally biased?

#10 Postby Ron Webb » October 27th, 2014, 10:10 pm

Dave B wrote:You last quote from Ron went un-commented by you, Luca. Pity, it was quite important in my scheme of things and reflects something you said earlier, "...I strive to do meaningful things." So stop striving! Striving uses up energy, both physical and emotional, that you could better use in other ways. Do not look for problems to solve, they will find you soon enough!

Just to be clear, I would never tell someone to "stop striving", if striving makes them happy. I think it's great if people set goals for themselves and enjoy the satisfaction of reaching or exceeding those goals. However, the hard fact is that few people's lives will be "meaningful" in any large scale or objective sense. Most us will never matter to anyone aside from our immediate family and close friends. But that's okay. IMHO it should be enough to live a happy life, however you define that to be, and without causing unhappiness to others.

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Dave B
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Re: Is logical thinking fundamentally biased?

#11 Postby Dave B » October 27th, 2014, 10:51 pm

Ron Webb wrote:
Dave B wrote:You last quote from Ron went un-commented by you, Luca. Pity, it was quite important in my scheme of things and reflects something you said earlier, "...I strive to do meaningful things." So stop striving! Striving uses up energy, both physical and emotional, that you could better use in other ways. Do not look for problems to solve, they will find you soon enough!

Just to be clear, I would never tell someone to "stop striving", if striving makes them happy. I think it's great if people set goals for themselves and enjoy the satisfaction of reaching or exceeding those goals. However, the hard fact is that few people's lives will be "meaningful" in any large scale or objective sense. Most us will never matter to anyone aside from our immediate family and close friends. But that's okay. IMHO it should be enough to live a happy life, however you define that to be, and without causing unhappiness to others.
Yes, Ron, there are often two sides to everything!

I would add to your last sentence that it is also, for me at least, a happy thing to help others find happiness! But not to try to force them into that state if they do not wish to experience it . . .
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015


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