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Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

Enter here to explore ethical issues and discuss the meaning and source of morality.
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Altfish
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Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#41 Postby Altfish » November 20th, 2014, 4:17 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

YouCanCallMeDave wrote:
Altfish wrote:Why is it nearly ALL creationists claim that they used to be an atheist, a humanist or some other form of non-believer?

But they have 'seen the light'


Because they got saved from their lifestyle sins which a Humanism culture promotes . Yes, they saw the light of their misdeeds, immorality, rebellion, self centered living, and arrogance .

All of us are creationists whether we care to admit it or not because the alternative is so untenable that nothing made a universe out of nothing , or, an impersonal Force made a Universe out of nothing .


Wow, you managed to get the 'quoting' right - have a gold star!!
However, I notice on the two posts that followed you messed it up again.

"Dave", no matter what you claim, you were never a Humanist, you don't even know what it means. If your life was full of "... misdeeds, immorality, rebellion, self centered living, and arrogance." you were no humanist. That sounds more like the Westboro Baptist Church mob.

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YouCanCallMeDave
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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#42 Postby YouCanCallMeDave » November 20th, 2014, 4:46 pm

Altfish wrote:
YouCanCallMeDave wrote:
Altfish wrote:Why is it nearly ALL creationists claim that they used to be an atheist, a humanist or some other form of non-believer?

But they have 'seen the light'


Because they got saved from their lifestyle sins which a Humanism culture promotes . Yes, they saw the light of their misdeeds, immorality, rebellion, self centered living, and arrogance .

All of us are creationists whether we care to admit it or not because the alternative is so untenable that nothing made a universe out of nothing , or, an impersonal Force made a Universe out of nothing .


Wow, you managed to get the 'quoting' right - have a gold star!!
However, I notice on the two posts that followed you messed it up again.

"Dave", no matter what you claim, you were never a Humanist, you don't even know what it means. If your life was full of "... misdeeds, immorality, rebellion, self centered living, and arrogance." you were no humanist. That sounds more like the Westboro Baptist Church mob.


a. I had to erase a few of the quotes before I could post what I wanted to, so, its still a messed up software system. How do YOU get around this message of 'You are only allowed to embed 3 quotes' per post thing ?

b. No..i was indeed a full-fledged Humanist from a worldview and lifestyle standpoint ; I ran with the crowd that practiced moral relativism / talking anyway I felt like since 'there is no ultimate moral accountability' / and chasing after many idols for maximized egotism. I told people I was an Atheist because I wanted and needed to be one ; it wasn't for lack of scientific evidence for God...but rather, I didn't want to relingquish control to anyone else - not even our Creator. Since I have, my life has changed enormously . How has your life changed by being a Humanist ? What power does Humanism have to change People and make them better upright moral Citizens ?

c. Westboro Baptist Church is pseudo-Christianity in theology . Im mainstream Christianity .

d. Are you a mainstream Humanist ?

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Alan H
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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#43 Postby Alan H » November 20th, 2014, 4:54 pm

YouCanCallMeDave wrote:
Alan H wrote:
Ive learned ALOT about Humanism. I used to be a Humanist . I understand Humanism not only from a worldview/origins view , but also the consequences that occur in any society that is based on Humanist sociological principles . I believe you only have a surface level understanding of the Faith that you follow.


Not that you've been able to demonstrate.


Id expect this sort of a reply coming from yourself because you must defend Humanism at all costs even when its shown to be fallacious concerning a worldview, origins, sociological implications, and abberant lifestyle choices that harm others. In fact, there isn't anything I could possibily demonstrate to get you to consider because you've resigned to not wanting to drink the water . At this point, only your life coming to an end would make you feel and know otherwise.
Awww...shucks. I didn't know you cared.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#44 Postby Alan H » November 20th, 2014, 4:55 pm

YouCanCallMeDave wrote:a. I had to erase a few of the quotes before I could post what I wanted to, so, its still a messed up software system. How do YOU get around this message of 'You are only allowed to embed 3 quotes' per post thing ?
Sorry it's too difficult for you to cope with.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Altfish
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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#45 Postby Altfish » November 20th, 2014, 4:56 pm

YouCanCallMeDave wrote:
d. Are you a mainstream Humanist ?

What's one of those?

Humanists rarely meet up, although local groups do arrange lectures and the like. I go occasionally, usually because the speaker or their subject is of interest. But someone once described trying to get a group of humanists together is like trying to herd cats.

I don't know what a mainstream humanist is, I posted in one of my previous answers "The Oxford Declaration on Freedom of Though and Expression" that outlines a humanist manifesto (maybe not the right word) that I can relate to and which reflects my thoughts and morals.

So, am I a mainstream Humanist ? I still don't know but I'm sure you will though.

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Alan H
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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#46 Postby Alan H » November 20th, 2014, 4:58 pm

Altfish wrote:
YouCanCallMeDave wrote:
d. Are you a mainstream Humanist ?

What's one of those?

Humanists rarely meet up, although local groups do arrange lectures and the like. I go occasionally, usually because the speaker or their subject is of interest. But someone once described trying to get a group of humanists together is like trying to herd cats.

I don't know what a mainstream humanist is, I posted in one of my previous answers "The Oxford Declaration on Freedom of Though and Expression" that outlines a humanist manifesto (maybe not the right word) that I can relate to and which reflects my thoughts and morals.

So, am I a mainstream Humanist ? I still don't know but I'm sure you will though.
Since 'Dave' hasn't shown the slightest understanding - nor willingness to understand - of what any kind of humanism is, I doubt we should have any regard to any answer he gives on this.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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YouCanCallMeDave
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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#47 Postby YouCanCallMeDave » November 20th, 2014, 5:16 pm

Altfish wrote:
YouCanCallMeDave wrote:
d. Are you a mainstream Humanist ?

What's one of those?

Humanists rarely meet up, although local groups do arrange lectures and the like. I go occasionally, usually because the speaker or their subject is of interest. But someone once described trying to get a group of humanists together is like trying to herd cats.

I don't know what a mainstream humanist is, I posted in one of my previous answers "The Oxford Declaration on Freedom of Though and Expression" that outlines a humanist manifesto (maybe not the right word) that I can relate to and which reflects my thoughts and morals.

So, am I a mainstream Humanist ? I still don't know but I'm sure you will though.


I would term a 'Mainstream Humanist' One that affirms the formal affirmations as found in the Humanist Manifesto 1 and 2 as they are affirmations of a general sense ; they outline what a Humanist believes in and how to express those on a daily basis in ones life. Some of these include : Not desiring to live in accordance with absolute moral laws yet demanding Others treat them accordingly / partaking in virtually any lifestyle that brings pleasure regardless of the fact that the Individual and Others get harmed as evidenced in society today / and believing that if two people consent to doing something that it therefore makes it alright to partake in .

Ill check out "The Oxford Declaration on Freedom of Though and Expression" and see how it lines up with The Humanist Manifestos -- im sure there will be much agreement between the two.

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YouCanCallMeDave
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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#48 Postby YouCanCallMeDave » November 20th, 2014, 5:28 pm

I checked out this site , http://iheu.org/oxford-declaration-on-f ... xpression/ , and it has the same affirmations as the Humanist Manifestos do except the Humanist Manifestos (1 and 2) go a bit deeper and covers worldview and origins and highlights the pseudo-science of Evolution occurring (even though its doesn't meet the standard definition of Scientific inquiry) . But they both address human psychology and sociology .

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Altfish
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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#49 Postby Altfish » November 20th, 2014, 6:15 pm

Where do you get these from?

"Not desiring to live in accordance with absolute moral laws yet demanding Others treat them accordingly / partaking in virtually any lifestyle that brings pleasure regardless of the fact that the Individual and Others get harmed as evidenced in society today / and believing that if two people consent to doing something that it therefore makes it alright to partake in."

The Oxford Declaration says nothing of the sort; I do not recognise the statements that you have included as being part of any Humanist Manifesto (Not a great word but I'll go along with it). Please can you show me a link to where you've got it from. Thanks

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Altfish
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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#50 Postby Altfish » November 20th, 2014, 6:17 pm

Just looked up "Humanist Manifesto" and the latest version from 2003 states...

1. Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis.
2. Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of evolutionary change, an unguided process.
3. Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience.
4. Life’s fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals.
5. Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships.
6. Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness.
7. Respect for differing yet humane views in an open, secular, democratic, environmentally sustainable society

So, I reiterate, where does your 'manifesto' come from?

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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#51 Postby Maria Mac » November 20th, 2014, 9:55 pm

YouCanCallMeDave wrote:I would term a 'Mainstream Humanist' One that affirms the formal affirmations as found in the Humanist Manifesto 1 and 2 as they are affirmations of a general sense ; they outline what a Humanist believes in and how to express those on a daily basis in ones life. Some of these include : Not desiring to live in accordance with absolute moral laws yet demanding Others treat them accordingly / partaking in virtually any lifestyle that brings pleasure regardless of the fact that the Individual and Others get harmed as evidenced in society today / and believing that if two people consent to doing something that it therefore makes it alright to partake in .

Ill check out "The Oxford Declaration on Freedom of Though and Expression" and see how it lines up with The Humanist Manifestos -- im sure there will be much agreement between the two.

YouCanCallMeDave wrote:I checked out this site , http://iheu.org/oxford-declaration-on-f ... xpression/ , and it has the same affirmations as the Humanist Manifestos do except the Humanist Manifestos (1 and 2) go a bit deeper and covers worldview and origins and highlights the pseudo-science of Evolution occurring (even though its doesn't meet the standard definition of Scientific inquiry) .


If you're not a troll deliberately misrepresenting what you read to mean the opposite, then you are irredeemably uneducable and delusional and now you are history.

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Altfish
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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#52 Postby Altfish » November 20th, 2014, 10:48 pm

Athena wrote:
If you're not a troll deliberately misrepresenting what you read to mean the opposite, then you are irredeemably uneducable and delusional and now you are history.

Aaah, that's a shame I was enjoying him. :boohoo:

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Dave B
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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#53 Postby Dave B » November 21st, 2014, 9:39 am

Athena wrote:If you're not a troll deliberately misrepresenting what you read to mean the opposite, then you are irredeemably uneducable and delusional and now you are history.
Well, not our job to do anything about it but I think "Dave" was a psychiatric case in some need of treatment.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Altfish
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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#54 Postby Altfish » November 21st, 2014, 12:56 pm

Dave B wrote:
Athena wrote:If you're not a troll deliberately misrepresenting what you read to mean the opposite, then you are irredeemably uneducable and delusional and now you are history.
Well, not our job to do anything about it but I think "Dave" was a psychiatric case in some need of treatment.

No, he was just a creationist

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Dave B
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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#55 Postby Dave B » November 21st, 2014, 2:51 pm

Altfish wrote:
Dave B wrote:
Athena wrote:If you're not a troll deliberately misrepresenting what you read to mean the opposite, then you are irredeemably uneducable and delusional and now you are history.
Well, not our job to do anything about it but I think "Dave" was a psychiatric case in some need of treatment.

No, he was just a creationist
Yeah, that's (sort of) what I said! :laughter:
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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animist
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Re: Why shouldn't human remains be raffle prizes?

#56 Postby animist » November 21st, 2014, 6:49 pm

my latest answer to the OP is: absolutely no reason, but if you do win human remains you should treasure them much more than you would a bottle of plonk or an unwanted gift


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