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Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

Enter here to explore ethical issues and discuss the meaning and source of morality.
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Alan C.
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#21 Postby Alan C. » May 11th, 2012, 7:08 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

Compo
Those are what I meant by nutrients.
That is what I meant by food :)
Thanks Alan H.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Dave B
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#22 Postby Dave B » May 11th, 2012, 7:09 pm

Alan H wrote:
Compassionist wrote:I remember the mouse with a human ear growing from its back.
That wasn't a human ear in a mouse.
The "ear" was actually an ear-shaped cartilage structure grown by seeding human cartilage cells into a biodegradable ear-shaped mold.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacanti_mouse


I had a memory that it was merely a check that artificial bio-constructs could be maintained as part of a living organism. That could well be a replacement ear in actual application so why not have the fun of making the test piece that shape?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Fia
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#23 Postby Fia » May 11th, 2012, 10:15 pm

Doubt the mouse thought it a lot of fun :sad2:

Cathy
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#24 Postby Cathy » May 11th, 2012, 10:23 pm

Compassionist wrote:If it were possible to extend human life forever and ever, should we do it? Wouldn't that be a drain on resources? If you had the option, would you pay to live forever?


No, I would not pay to live forever. One lifetime is more than enough.

Before my former husband died he gradually faded away over many years, and was kept alive by modern medicine long past the time when it would have been kinder to have let him go. I would not want that. He reminded me of this mythical character:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithonus

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

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Alan H
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#25 Postby Alan H » May 11th, 2012, 10:36 pm

Dave B wrote:I had a memory that it was merely a check that artificial bio-constructs could be maintained as part of a living organism. That could well be a replacement ear in actual application so why not have the fun of making the test piece that shape?
I think you're right, but that's not the way many people remember it - I blame the science illiterate media.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan C.
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#26 Postby Alan C. » May 11th, 2012, 10:54 pm

Cathy.
No, I would not pay to live forever. One lifetime is more than enough.
So do you not believe in re-incarnation?
It's difficult to see where you stand on some issues.
Before my former husband died he gradually faded away over many years, and was kept alive by modern medicine long past the time when it would have been kinder to have let him go.
So what's your stance on euthanasia (assisted suicide)?
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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animist
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#27 Postby animist » May 12th, 2012, 7:21 am

Cathy wrote:
Compassionist wrote:If it were possible to extend human life forever and ever, should we do it? Wouldn't that be a drain on resources? If you had the option, would you pay to live forever?


No, I would not pay to live forever. One lifetime is more than enough.

Before my former husband died he gradually faded away over many years, and was kept alive by modern medicine long past the time when it would have been kinder to have let him go. I would not want that. He reminded me of this mythical character:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithonus

but the New Immortalists actually take this problem of decline into account - it is not death but ageing that they hope to conquer. They presumably think that they themselves are interesting and deserving enough to go indefinitely!

Compassionist
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#28 Postby Compassionist » May 12th, 2012, 9:19 am

As far as I know, those who seek to live forever are seeking eternal youth so that the quality of life is not reduced by ageing. I can see the appeal of eternal youth. I bet that if it were available, those who can afford it will pay for it, just as those who can afford it use botox to get rid of wrinkles.

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Dave B
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#29 Postby Dave B » May 12th, 2012, 9:41 am

Certainly would not want to live for ever with the aches and pains I am currently prone to!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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animist
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#30 Postby animist » May 12th, 2012, 10:32 am

Dave B wrote:Certainly would not want to live for ever with the aches and pains I am currently prone to!

so let's leave the aches and pains, and even the wrinkles and even the social irresponsibility problems - who would actually like to stay young forever?

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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#31 Postby Compassionist » May 12th, 2012, 2:39 pm

animist wrote:
Dave B wrote:Certainly would not want to live for ever with the aches and pains I am currently prone to!

so let's leave the aches and pains, and even the wrinkles and even the social irresponsibility problems - who would actually like to stay young forever?

What's wrong with eternal youth? Wouldn't it be great to stop senescence at age 21?

What about designer babies? Does that come under transhumanism? Is it good to abort embryos with genetic predisposition to cancer? For example, this baby was born without the breast cancer gene. Isn't that eugenics? In America lots of adults with mental health problems were forcibly sterilised. Was that right or wrong?

What about gender selection and cosmetic selection e.g. blue eyes and blonde hair which are carried out in this American clinic? What about the selective abortion of girl embryos in India? How do we decide which is ethical? Religionists believe that right and wrong are decided by their respective gods and goddesses and are stated in their respective 'holy' books. How would humanists decide what is right and what is wrong? Shakespeare said, "Nothing is either good or bad but thinking makes it so." Is ethics arbitrary?

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Nick
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#32 Postby Nick » May 12th, 2012, 2:55 pm

animist wrote:so let's leave the aches and pains, and even the wrinkles and even the social irresponsibility problems - who would actually like to stay young forever?

Interesting question, animist. For the moment, my immediate thought is that I think we tend to derive greatest happiness from things happening over a period of time, and from moderate change and progression. Would we rather than roses were permanently in bloom, say, or that we were never going to progress, because we had reached some equilibrium plateau. Raising a family is rewarding, but would that still be the case if the kids never grew up?

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Dave B
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#33 Postby Dave B » May 12th, 2012, 3:20 pm

The only thing that I can think of as a reason to live for ever is to see which of the hundreds of alternative histories I have read comes closest to reality!

There are a couple of kids I would like to live long enough to see how they develop.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Compassionist
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#34 Postby Compassionist » May 12th, 2012, 3:47 pm

Nick wrote:
animist wrote:so let's leave the aches and pains, and even the wrinkles and even the social irresponsibility problems - who would actually like to stay young forever?

Interesting question, animist. For the moment, my immediate thought is that I think we tend to derive greatest happiness from things happening over a period of time, and from moderate change and progression. Would we rather than roses were permanently in bloom, say, or that we were never going to progress, because we had reached some equilibrium plateau. Raising a family is rewarding, but would that still be the case if the kids never grew up?

Kids can be grown up at 21. What if they stopped ageing and had eternal youth? What if we could all be 21 forever?

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Dave B
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#35 Postby Dave B » May 12th, 2012, 4:12 pm

What if we could all be 21 forever?
If you mean "in every respect", including attitude, emotional balance etc. - no bloody thanks! I remember me at 21 (my birthday, standing on a table in the bar in Bahrain, holding a pint glass of almost neat white rum and reciting "Eskimo Nell").
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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animist
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#36 Postby animist » May 12th, 2012, 5:44 pm

Dave B wrote:The only thing that I can think of as a reason to live for ever is to see which of the hundreds of alternative histories I have read comes closest to reality!
presumably the one which imagines a world of perpetual 21-year-olds

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Dave B
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#37 Postby Dave B » May 12th, 2012, 6:45 pm

animist wrote:
Dave B wrote:The only thing that I can think of as a reason to live for ever is to see which of the hundreds of alternative histories I have read comes closest to reality!
presumably the one which imagines a world of perpetual 21-year-olds
Not one that I have read so far, animist! In most of the "Methuselah" scenarios ageing is slowed at whichever point the person wants and then they are "regenerated" at regular intervals.

There is often a problem with those who are not so extended, the "ephemerals" are often revolting.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Fia
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#38 Postby Fia » May 12th, 2012, 10:32 pm

I was pretty revolting at 21. There is no age I have been I'd like to remain at. I fully embrace the idea that education and experience is a life long process - I'd really hate that to be taken away. What would be the point of my life? I merely aspire to be wise. That's good enough for me.

However, I do rather like the idea (Carlin? Allen?) of going backwards: feeling better every day, getting a celebration when you start work, meeting one's children as adults, responsibilities diminishing, getting to play all day with sand, playdough and paint, being in a warm, comfy, nurturing watery place and ending up as an orgasm :D

Lord Muck oGentry
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#39 Postby Lord Muck oGentry » May 13th, 2012, 12:22 am

Fia wrote:However, I do rather like the idea (Carlin? Allen?) of going backwards: feeling better every day, getting a celebration when you start work, meeting one's children as adults, responsibilities diminishing, getting to play all day with sand, playdough and paint, being in a warm, comfy, nurturing watery place and ending up as an orgasm :D


I rather like going forwards, in accordance with the wise words of the cove who said I began an anomaly, became an abuse, and ended a scandal. :D
What we can't say, we can't say and we can't whistle it either. — Frank Ramsey

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Dave B
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#40 Postby Dave B » May 13th, 2012, 9:59 am

Fia wrote:However, I do rather like the idea (Carlin? Allen?) of going backwards: feeling better every day, getting a celebration when you start work, meeting one's children as adults, responsibilities diminishing, getting to play all day with sand, playdough and paint, being in a warm, comfy, nurturing watery place and ending up as an orgasm :D
That's OK, Fia, get the old folks home to install the sand pit et al before you get there and you can achieve most of that!

Second childhood here I come!:laughter:
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Compassionist
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Re: Transhumanism and Biological Immortality

#41 Postby Compassionist » May 13th, 2012, 11:57 am

Dave B wrote:
What if we could all be 21 forever?
If you mean "in every respect", including attitude, emotional balance etc. - no bloody thanks! I remember me at 21 (my birthday, standing on a table in the bar in Bahrain, holding a pint glass of almost neat white rum and reciting "Eskimo Nell").

No, that's not what I mean. You would obviously change mentally as you gain more experiences and grow wiser. I am saying, 'What if senescence stopped at 21?' I am exploring the answer in my story. Telomeres would stop getting shorter at 21 and people will stop ageing physically. Obviously, you would still get older with time.


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